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Re: Antisemitisme: Servadac Frewer vs Munro; and other mysteries

From: <rick1walter~at~comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:22:06 -0400
To: jvf~at~gilead.org.il

Hi Norm--

Your latest assumptions regarding the Munroe and Frewer translations of
HECTOR SERVADAC are unwarranted.

You compare the two . . .

"Munro:
         "Jew" 51 times
        "Isaac" 173 times

"Frewer:
        "Jew" 100 times
        "Isaac" 51 times

"I assume the Munro would fairly reflect the French original since [sic] a
literal translation."

However, you give no factual basis for your claim that Munro's text is
"literal." Even so, you later conclude: "All in all, given that the Munro
(up to II-10) may [sic] be from the "magazin" original, I still feel that
it gives the closest feel to the Verne original."

I'm uncomfortable, Norm, with your mays, perhapses, assumptions, and
guesses in this vital area. Scholarly issues deserve reasonable research
and conclusions supported by genuine evidence.

In which case, what FACTS are available on the so-called "literalness" of
either of these translations? First off, Verne's original: it's easy enough
to search the online French on "Juif" and "Isac". Compare the following
with your tallies above--

Verne:
        "Juif" 18 times
        "Isac" 203 times

Hence, Norm, BOTH British translators significantly increase the references
to "Jew." Hence NEITHER is literal. Hence both have made the text still
more troubling in English.

In sensitive matters such as this, it's crucial that we check our facts and
not simply assume or guess.

All the best,
Rick Walter in Albuqueruque.




Original Message:
-----------------
From: 1001~at~atlanticbb.net
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 23:31:42 -0400
To: jvf~at~Gilead.org.il
Subject: Antisemitisme: Servadac Frewer vs Munro; and other mysteries


I found this interesting statistic in comparing the Frewer and Munro
translations of HS:

Munro:
         "Jew" 51 times
        "Isaac" 173 times

Frewer:
        "Jew" 100 times
        "Isaac" 51 times

I assume the Munro would fairly reflect the French original since a literal
translation.

I do not know when Jews were allowed to own property in England, perhaps
Victoria.. In Europe it was not until Napoleon I believe who eliminated the
ghettos. Ahead of his time in many ways.

Then in comparing the Munro and Frewer translations we find that in part
II, chapters 11--20, the last chapter, are identical. This seems to
indicate that both Sampson Low and Scribners copied the Munro translation
when it came out. We will have to know from J-M Margot the history of the
French translations. The time line as I find it is as follows:

JAN 1 1877 - DEC 15 1877, Magazin publishes HS in French.
MAR 1877 Frank Leslie announces they will publish HS (it does not appear)
JUL 19 1877 In 18 (small size) version of Vol. I available for sale in
France by Hetzel
AUG 27 1877--FEB 11 1888 Munro publishes weekly version of I + II of HS
SEP 13 1877 In 8 (large size) version of Vol I + II available by
subscription in France by Hetzel
SEP 1877 (JVE) Munro publishes #43 Seaside Library Ed of HS I + II 39 pp.
NOV 1 1877 Sampson Low publishes Vol I + II of Hector Servadac in London
NOV 7 1877 In 18 (small size) version of Vol II available for sale in
France by Hetzel
NOV 16 1877 In 8 (large size) version of Vol I + II + illustrations
available in France.
NOV 24 1877 Scribners publishes Vol I + II in New York (English sheets)

The French text of the Magazin version is different from the other versions
which are identical. (French info from Gondolo della Riva)

My conclusion, if the above is correct, is that Munro was translating the
Magazin version from Aug 27 and that as soon as Vol. II became available
SEP 13 it was immediately translated and the whole published as #43 Seaside
Library. Sampson Low then copied Chapters 11-20 of Vol II from the Munro
edition and included them in the Frewer translation thus having the volume
available for the Christmas trade. Thus 1/3 of the Frewer edition is
actually the Munro translation. Scribners printed the identical text later.

Although the Munro after Ch II-10 is also quite literal, the style there
is a little more polished than in the earlier part, perhaps showing that
extra hands were laid on to finish the translation quickly.

At some later time apparently some extra lines were added to the Hetzel
edition as there are some lines not in the Frewer/Munro part of HS (Poche
Ed) and of course the Recontre Edition may be different too.

Adam Roberts in his recent (2007) rewrite of HS also uses the Munro/Frewer
version of Chaps 11-20 of Vol II. Roberts was apparently using the online
Project Gutenberg version of the Frewer as he says the chapter 27 (ch 3 in
part 2) on comets was omitted. Gutenberg uses the Parke (1911) version of
the translation and it is this reprint that uses the title he quotes ("Off
on a Comet") and omits the comet chapter. The Parke is well known for
condensing the texts for that 15 volume edition. Actually the chapter is
there in the original and in the Munro version as well. He also fudges a
bit on the anti-semitic portions and leaves out some dialogue. Well, no one
is perfect..

All in all, given that the Munro (up to II-10) may be from the "magazin"
original, I still feel that it gives the closest feel to the Verne original.

With Verne, nothing is simple!




nwolcott2~at~post.harvard.edu

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