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Re: Civil War Memorial Edinburgh

From: Jan Rychlík <jan.rychlik~at~seznam.cz>
Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 08:09:34 +0200 (CEST)
To: Jules Verne Forum <jvf~at~gilead.org.il>

Dear Rick,
even though the better term would probably be the French one, Guerre de Secession, it was a civil war indeed. To be sure the issue was contested within the Southern (and border) states as well and with the setting of loyalist governments in some of the southern states there was a sort of struggle for control of governement (not central) too. Besides, the extent of power of federal government was was one the most important issues of the war.
Best regards
Jan
> ------------ Původní zpráva ------------
> Od: Rick Walter <rick1walter~at~comcast.net>
> Předmět: Re: Civil War Memorial Edinburgh
> Datum: 22.5.2011 03:59:18
> ----------------------------------------
> >the term "Civil War" is incorrect by definition. The use of this term is much
> criticiized among scholars. There was a Roman Civil War and an English Civil
> War, but not an American Civil War. The two factions did not vie for control of
> the central government.
>
> Hi David,
>
> MW's Collegiate Dictionary 11th ed. defines "civil war" simply and
> straightforwardly: "a war between opposing groups of citizens of the same
> country." I'll continue to use this clear, understandable term when discussing
> our own 19th century conflict.
>
> Best,
>
> Rick
>
> Frederick Paul Walter
> Albuquerque, New Mexico
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Raymond Macon
> To: 'Jules Verne Forum'
> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 7:32 PM
> Subject: Re: Civil War Memorial Edinburgh
>
>
> Mr. McCallister,
>
>
>
> Writing as a black American, I found your take on the American Civil War to be
> interesting. Let me say that I profoundly disagree with it. The Southern
> States had no legal or constitutional right to secede from the Union. Why do I
> say this? Because secession would have meant an end to the government of the
> United States as it was then constituted. Abraham Lincoln had the right view of
> this matter when he denied the right of any state to leave the Union in that
> manner. That doesn’t mean that there was no legal or constitutional recourse
> for Southerners to pursue. As Lincoln (and others) went on to point out, the
> question of secession was one that could be settled in two ways. One was to
> introduce a constitutional amendment to that effect and have a two-thirds
> majority in both houses of Congress pass it and then three-quarters of the
> states ratify it. The second option was to convince three-quarters of the
> states to call for a constitutional convention where the question could then be
> debated.
>
>
>
> The Confederacy pursued neither of these options, but instead chose armed
> insurrection. The Union’s response was the correct one in my view. This is
> aside from the deep moral questions the existence of the Confederacy raised and
> which I won’t bring up here. The only thing I will say is that the destruction
> of the Confederacy was nothing to be ashamed of. I have never doubted the
> bravery of those who chose to fight for the Stars and Bars, but I have also
> never regretted their defeat, either.
>
>
>
> Raymond Macon
>
>
>
> From: owner-jvf~at~Gilead.org.il [mailto:owner-jvf~at~Gilead.org.il] On Behalf Of
> mystery1881~at~verizon.net
> Sent: Saturday, 21 May, 2011 15:06
> To: jvf~at~Gilead.org.il
> Subject: Re: Civil War Memorial Edinburgh
>
>
>
>
> I will look up the memorials to the War Between the States in other countires.
>
>
> Right off the bat, I can cite the monument of the Confederados in Brazil to
> their ancestors who emigrated to escape the destruction of the so-called
> "reconstruction". You can see their celebrations on youtube.
>
>
>
> I believe that the grave of Judah P. Benjamin , the Sec. of State of the CSA,
> and the first Jewish member of any American cabinet ( as well as a famous
> barrister and legal scholar in the British phase of his career), in Pere
> Lachaise Cemetary in Paris, has a Confederate marker.
>
>
>
>
>
> BTW, the term "Civil War" is incorrect by definition. The use of this term is
> much criticiized among scholars. There was a Roman Civil War and an English
> Civil War, but not an American Civil War. The two factions did not vie for
> control of the central government; the Northern or Union States, initially
> treacherously and unconstitutionally attacked the legally seceeding States,
> causing even more States to seceed. The proper term is The War Between the
> States.
>
>
>
> With apologies to any Vernians who find this subject controversial - it is. As
> long as we can be fair to all points of view and relate the historical truth,
> then we can all get along. Truth is the first casualty of war. Jules Verne may
> have had his own opinions on things; and that is fine, we are all here to study
> Verne. What he may have had to say about the War Between the States is valid for
> discussion. When side-lights are addressed, they should be considered
> objectively.
>
>
>
> David McCallister
>
> May 20, 2011 04:10:46 PM, jvf~at~Gilead.org.il wrote:
>
> I was in Edinburgh this morning to discuss the translation of The
> Blockade Runners with my publisher and visited Old Calton Cemetery, a
> very small almost hidden cemetery at the foot of Calton Hill (visited by
> Verne in 1859). Our American colleagues might be interested to know in
> this anniversary year of the Civil War that here is what is claimed to
> be the only memorial to the war outside America. It is a fine full size
> bronze statue of Abraham Lincoln on a large plinth at the foot of which
> is a second statue of a slave gazing at Lincoln and extending an arm in
> gratitude to him. To see a picture of the monument and a short text
> enter "Edinburgh's Civil War Memorial" in google. It is a moving
> monument and I will include an image of it in the essay that I am
> writing to accompany The Blockade Runners.
> Ian Thompson
>
>
>
Received on Mon 23 May 2011 - 09:09:40 IDT

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