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Re: Verne's beloved Scotland

From: wbutcher <wbutcher~at~netvigator.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 15:34:42 +0800
To: "'Jules Verne Forum'" <jvf~at~gilead.org.il>


Interesting stuff, Alex. Personally, I find the idea of a Scottish colony
anachronistic in the 19th or 21st centuries. As for whether any given idea
was Hetzel's, it's hard to be specific, since we only have the final
manuscript of Grant, no draft having survived. But I would say that he has a
tendency to repeatedly come back to the same ideas throughout the editing
process: that is, once he's had a notion, he often develops it further at
later stages. In fact, even the word "Jacobite" seems to be absent from the
original (ie uncorrected) manuscript.

Verne definitely favours Scotland more than England, going so far as to say,
admittedly partly in jest, that it's the only God-given country. In his
personal life, he chooses to go to the British Isles more than anywhere
else, including of course the major trips to Scotland. But does he see
Scotland as an oppressed _colony_ in Grant? It's not really relevant to cite
his condemnations of _British_ colonialism, usually in places without a
large white settler population, since the Scots were often the most
energetic colonialists. It's quite a leap to say that Verne's criticisms of
colonialism in Australasia apply to Scotland, since the idea that Scotland
is a "colony" of England does not seem to be implied in the three chapters
you cite -- why not consider New York a "colony" of Puerto Rico or of
American Samoa?

Remember, breaking up France, Britain, Spain or Portugal was a
revolutionary, non-mainstream idea in the 19th C -- and Verne was rarely a
revolutionary, indeed he became increasingly conservative as time went on.
In sum, I remain a sceptic, on this as on so many fashionable beliefs about
Verne.

One of Hetzel's main "contributions" in Grant (and in Journey, and in Around
the World), in my view, was to undermine Verne's belief he could write
love-scenes, then propose his own romantic ideas, written in a mushy,
out-of-focus style, suitable at best for young people.

Looking forward to reading your stimulating ideas on Scotland in the
critical apparatus!

Bill


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jvf~at~Gilead.org.il [mailto:owner-jvf~at~Gilead.org.il] On Behalf Of
Alex Kirstukas
Sent: 14 January 2012 19:13
To: Jules Verne Forum
Subject: Re: Verne's beloved Scotland

Excellent points, Bill, but I don't think the Scottish nationalism in Grant
was entirely Hetzel's idea. Some thoughts:

1. Backwards to Britain, I think you'll agree, is far more complimentary to
the Scottish than to the English. Also, it treats the countries very clearly
as two separate entities, including in the French title ("Angleterre et
Ecosse").

2. Verne almost always takes the side of the invaded rather than the
invaders, even when this puts him on ground that makes Hetzel squeamish (cf.
Nemo as a Pole).

3. Over and over in Grant, and in vastly different contexts, Verne slams on
British colonialism (see especially II.xvi, I.iii, and III.xi). In the MS,
these sections are all in Verne's handwriting.

In short, I'd say that Hetzel's main contribution was to make Grant an
adventurous would-be colony-founder - not a particularly bright idea, since
it seems to contradict the anti-colonial sentiments Verne plants elsewhere
in the book. I'd appreciate your further thoughts, though, and I've read
Ishibashi's splendid thesis, so feel free to cite it.

Alex



On Jan 14, 2012, at 1:47 AM, "wbutcher" <wbutcher~at~netvigator.com> wrote:

> The relationship between the Scottish and British governments
> uncannily parallels that between the Hong Kong and Chinese ones, if
> only because the borderline between their respective powers isn't
> always clear. The Scottish first minister WANTS to hold a referendum
> in late 2014, but the UK prime minister says he can't act unilaterally...
>
> Incidentally, a break-up would presumably mean problems for the term
> "UK", describing the union of the kingdoms of Scotland and England.
>
> Actually, a proportion of the nationalist sentiment in Grant is due to
> Hetzel's ideas -- see Masataka Ishibashi's judicious study of this
> question (in his PhD). I don't think Verne really supported
> independence for Scotland.
>
> Alex, your self-deprecating irony just goes to show that often it is
> the outside observer who has the clearest view, simply by not being
> too closely involved. I watched with some bemusement the debate in
> this forum about the US Civil War/War between the States/etc,
> searching for some general rule as to when part of a country has the
> legal or moral right to break away (as Singapore did soon after
independence).
>
> Best wishes
>
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jvf~at~Gilead.org.il [mailto:owner-jvf~at~Gilead.org.il] On
> Behalf Of Alex Kirstukas
> Sent: 14 January 2012 08:22
> To: Jules Verne Forum
> Subject: Re: Verne's beloved Scotland
>
> Please do, Harry! And pardon whatever American misconceptions I have
> about the British electoral process. It wasn't MY idea to break off
> from the mother country, you know. :)
>
> All the best,
>
> Alex
>
>
>
> On Jan 13, 2012, at 11:37 PM, Harry Hayfield <harryhayfield~at~gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> May I, as the electoral voice on this forum, explain why that
>> statement
> isn't strictly correct (but would like the grace to be able to post on
> Sunday, as I am involved with "Me and My Girl" at the moment!)
>> ------ Original Message ------
>> From: "Alex Kirstukas" <infernalnonsense~at~yahoo.com>
>> To: "Jules Verne Forum" <jvf~at~gilead.org.il>
>> Sent: 13/01/2012 23:33:02
>> Subject: Verne's beloved Scotland
>>> I've just found out that in 2014, Britain will finally hold a
> long-awaited referendum on whether Scotland should be independent.
>>>
>>> In (yes, you knew this was coming, sorry I keep bringing it up, I
>>> love
> the book) "Les Enfants du capitaine Grant," which takes place EXACTLY
> a century and a half earlier, Verne expounds at length on that very
> question, highlighting the need for such a decision.
>>>
>>> Verne the Prophet turns up again?
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
Received on Sun 15 Jan 2012 - 09:35:18 IST

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